development KVS 5.5.0 discussion and poll

[Tech Support]

We have some small set of features for 5.4.0 that should be in place by the end of year. Then we will start working with HLS and whatever else our customers vote from the above list. There will be more features added for sure, because typically each huge feature requires some neighbor enhancements.

Please vote!

[Scumtron]

HLS and S3 protocol made for each other, it is desirable to implement them together.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Scumtron

[Emilia]

So since you know about HLS / Adaptive Streaming and it wasn't in the vote, does that mean it's gonna be included in the 5.5.0 update or not?

[Tech Support]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:02 PM, Emilia said:

So since you know about HLS / Adaptive Streaming and it wasn't in the vote, does that mean it's gonna be included in the 5.5.0 update or not?

We will start implementing it, but we are not sure if we will fully complete it, as the feature affects many things in KVS and could result in many changes, which we would prefer to do in iterations then.

For example, at the moment KVS supports only 2 groups of video formats: Standard and Premium. With adding HLS we have to allow as many format groups as needed and we want to unconnect them from video type (at the moment Public and Private videos are using Standard format group and Premium videos are using Premium format group). This is needed because a lot of old customers would want to use HLS for new videos, possibly leaving old videos in MP4 format. So they should be able to create a new format group with another set of video formats (including HLS) for new videos.

So HLS feature requires some other connecting features, which themselves require more other connecting features and etc, so the impact will be huge and thus could be divided into iterations.

[Emilia]

4 hours ago, Tech Support said:

With adding HLS we have to allow as many format groups

Why can't you guys treat it like you treat screenshot formats where you have an option to make either jpg or webp?

I get it webp is connected with jpg and requires both but that shouldn't be the case with hls at all.

I'm sure most of us agree to leave older videos alone and only move forward with hls for the new videos only for the time being.

 

4 hours ago, Tech Support said:

at the moment Public and Private videos are using Standard format group and Premium videos are using Premium format group

What more are you thinking and why do people need more format groups? standard and premium sound good enough for majority of webmasters

--

Okay so no a side note I've played around the idea of converting mp4 to hls on the fly while keeping mp4 videos alone and it has been working great for my tests so far. Would you guys be able to help me change the URL for the player just a tiny bit so the current kvs player works with it?

so for example, if my current direct video link is media1.domain.com/contents/videos/128000/128304/128304_1080p.mp4, I'd like it to be media1.domain.com/contents/videos/128000/128304/128304_1080p.mp4/index.m3u8 and still have it work as a protected link.
The download links don't need to change at all.

Really what I wanna do is, append /index.m3u8 to all the existing URLs only for the video player and let rest of the KVS do it's job as it already does. No change
Uploading, renaming, conversion and anything else can remain unaffected.

If you guys can do this slight modification for me, I'd be over the moon

[hbarnetworks]

6 hours ago, Tech Support said:

We will start implementing it, but we are not sure if we will fully complete it, as the feature affects many things in KVS and could result in many changes, which we would prefer to do in iterations then.

For example, at the moment KVS supports only 2 groups of video formats: Standard and Premium. With adding HLS we have to allow as many format groups as needed and we want to unconnect them from video type (at the moment Public and Private videos are using Standard format group and Premium videos are using Premium format group). This is needed because a lot of old customers would want to use HLS for new videos, possibly leaving old videos in MP4 format. So they should be able to create a new format group with another set of video formats (including HLS) for new videos.

So HLS feature requires some other connecting features, which themselves require more other connecting features and etc, so the impact will be huge and thus could be divided into iterations.

Well I am excited!

[simons]

Upgrading from free user to paid one is missing and it's a very important feature. Currently isn't possible with NATS.

[Tech Support]

7 hours ago, Emilia said:

Why can't you guys treat it like you treat screenshot formats where you have an option to make either jpg or webp?

I get it webp is connected with jpg and requires both but that shouldn't be the case with hls at all.

I'm sure most of us agree to leave older videos alone and only move forward with hls for the new videos only for the time being.

You won't be able to configure this having the current video format structure. That's why we need adjustments in this area.

7 hours ago, Emilia said:

What more are you thinking and why do people need more format groups? standard and premium sound good enough for majority of webmasters

The current implementation is bad, because format groups are connected to video type. It is not possible to change Premium video -> to Public video and vice versa because they have different sets of formats. This limitation is annoying in many cases, so we want to get rid of it as well.

Also having 2 format groups won't allow old projects use HLS in the future, if they are already using formats in both groups for old videos. So we have to allow adding new groups so that such projects are able to use HLS.

8 hours ago, Emilia said:

Would you guys be able to help me change the URL for the player just a tiny bit so the current kvs player works with it?

Current KVS player doesn't support HLS. Also even if you are going to use another player, it is not possible to just generate the correct URL to the remote storage server, unless you hardcode it in template. Then you probably don't need any help. Just open debug for the video_view block and check its $data.formats array, it contains information about all video formats the current video has and this should be enough to render.

4 hours ago, simons said:

Upgrading from free user to paid one is missing and it's a very important feature. Currently isn't possible with NATS.

Not sure why you think this is missing, but this is not true. KVS supports upgrade block that can be used by free (standard) members to purchase premium access. In case of NATS you don't even need this block, as NATS has its own purchase form.

[Emilia]

3 hours ago, Tech Support said:

The current implementation is bad, because format groups are connected to video type. It is not possible to change Premium video -> to Public video and vice versa because they have different sets of formats. This limitation is annoying in many cases, so we want to get rid of it as well.

Also having 2 format groups won't allow old projects use HLS in the future, if they are already using formats in both groups for old videos. So we have to allow adding new groups so that such projects are able to use HLS.

I see, it makes total sense.

3 hours ago, Tech Support said:

Just open debug for the video_view block and check its $data.formats array

I see, I should be able to hardcode $data.formats._1080p.mp4.file_url and so on for all formats and append /index.m3u8 at the end.

3 hours ago, Tech Support said:

Then you probably don't need any help

I could really use a step by step guide on how to change the web player 😢

[Tech Support]

1 hour ago, Emilia said:

I could really use a step by step guide on how to change the web player 😢

There are no steps here. You should take the code provided by your player developer and replace KVS player code in video_view block template. And also in Settings -> Embed player settings do the same if you need this to affect embed player as well.

[simons]

10 hours ago, Tech Support said:

Not sure why you think this is missing, but this is not true. KVS supports upgrade block that can be used by free (standard) members to purchase premium access. In case of NATS you don't even need this block, as NATS has its own purchase form.

Hi, well that's what somebody from your support told us in the ticket system. We asked if a free user signed up from KVS form would have been converted into a paid one (premium). The answer was "To be honest, not sure how this could be possible." plus some advice . If you want to check #AFW-242-67414.

Thanks!

[Yale_Dioma]

Hello, WebP support could be added also for models, categories, channels images etc...?

Notifications, could include also new videos from subscriptions etc?

Thanks

Edited December 9, 2020 by Yale_Dioma

[Tech Support]

15 hours ago, simons said:

Hi, well that's what somebody from your support told us in the ticket system. We asked if a free user signed up from KVS form would have been converted into a paid one (premium). The answer was "To be honest, not sure how this could be possible." plus some advice . If you want to check #AFW-242-67414.

Yes, we re-checked the ticket and looks like this is correct due to NATS limitation as far as we understand. The issue is that NATS will execute KVS postback to check if username is already registered or not, which is correct for new users, but won't work when your existing users try to upgrade. Please contact NATS support to see if they have solution for that and reply us back in the ticket if they have a working scheme.

15 hours ago, Yale_Dioma said:

WebP support could be added also for models, categories, channels images etc...?

Not planned yet, first for albums as this looks to be more important. But if we come to the necessity to update logic related to category, model and channel images (there could be a set of changes there as well), we will also add support for WebP.

15 hours ago, Yale_Dioma said:

Notifications, could include also new videos from subscriptions etc?

This would only be possible if we implement the Content Scheduler feature that also exists in poll. Without content scheduler there will be no way to add notifications about new videos in subscriptions due to performance impact.

[phseven]

Apart from above topics also some add ones  to look at are:

1 - Live streaming with user live chat ( similar to youtube live stream).

2 - Add a function to choose between tokens or real money.  Tokens are great for adult sites but money is preferable for mainstream sites.

3 - Ability to use streaming servers for content like wowza , wowza allows for HLS streaming and secure streaming.

 

 

[Emilia]

42 minutes ago, phseven said:

Live streaming with user live chat ( similar to youtube live stream).

That would need HLS support, or you should be able to play rtmp streams via a third party player

43 minutes ago, phseven said:

Add a function to choose between tokens or real money.  Tokens are great for adult sites but money is preferable for mainstream sites.

+1 on that

 

[Tech Support]

3 hours ago, phseven said:

1 - Live streaming with user live chat ( similar to youtube live stream).

Live streaming is not something that is on our radar at all. Please consider using other software for this.

 

3 hours ago, phseven said:

2 - Add a function to choose between tokens or real money.  Tokens are great for adult sites but money is preferable for mainstream sites.

Tokens are part of KVS anyway, and the engine will use token anyway to run its internal calculations. You can consider 1 token = 1 cent, and 100 tokens = 1USD, if needed you can render prices in USD instead of tokens in site templates (e.g. ${{$data.tokens_required|number_format:2:'.'}} - should render $1.05 instead of 105 tokens).

The only problem right now is that KVS has no way for use to come and purchase a single video / object straight away, e.g. pay $2.95 for this or that. In KVS user will be required first to purchase a package of credit to their account and then use this credit for internal purchases. So instead of just paying $2.95 user will have to purchase $10.00 credit (1000 tokens) and then spend $2.95.

This is both good and bad. Bad because this is not convenient to users and they have no ability to spend the exact amount. Good because you could get more money, since some users could spend $10 instead of $3, even if they originally wanted to spend only $3.

[phseven]

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:50 AM, Tech Support said:

Live streaming is not something that is on our radar at all. Please consider using other software for this.

 

KVS stated that you will look at implementing HLS as written above " vote for your 2 desired features in 5.5.0 (we already know for HLS / adaptive streaming, so it is not included)  "

HLS Stands for HTTP Live streaming so by implementing HLS you are already adding live streaming, so it will be possible to add HLS m3u8 urls I guess this will be great to build live channels list sites.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:50 AM, Tech Support said:

Tokens are part of KVS anyway, and the engine will use token anyway to run its internal calculations. You can consider 1 token = 1 cent, and 100 tokens = 1USD, if needed you can render prices in USD instead of tokens in site templates (e.g. ${{$data.tokens_required|number_format:2:'.'}} - should render $1.05 instead of 105 tokens).

The only problem right now is that KVS has no way for use to come and purchase a single video / object straight away, e.g. pay $2.95 for this or that. In KVS user will be required first to purchase a package of credit to their account and then use this credit for internal purchases. So instead of just paying $2.95 user will have to purchase $10.00 credit (1000 tokens) and then spend $2.95.

This is both good and bad. Bad because this is not convenient to users and they have no ability to spend the exact amount. Good because you could get more money, since some users could spend $10 instead of $3, even if they originally wanted to spend only $3.

I understand how token works in actual version , we are using it already in one of our sites . But for users to sell private videos or subscriptions to their channels better option was to have have single video/object purchase in $$.

 

[Tech Support]

1 hour ago, phseven said:

HLS Stands for HTTP Live streaming so by implementing HLS you are already adding live streaming, so it will be possible to add HLS m3u8 urls I guess this will be great to build live channels list sites.

If so, then yes, you should be able to hotlink m3u8 file hosted anywhere and have it being displayed. BTW, you can do that already if you switch to another player, because KVS player doesn't yet support HLS, we have our code locked to MP4 URLs for various reasons.

[xvids]

Hi, 

Feedback For MPEG-DASH and HLS

 

On 12/9/2020 at 6:11 AM, Tech Support said:

Current KVS player doesn't support HLS. Also even if you are going to use another player,

My recommendation is please use: 

https://www.fluidplayer.com/#overview

https://github.com/fluid-player/fluid-player

This player have many feature which required for KVS.

you can test. and its easy to configure. thanks to their javascript work.

for temporary you can use this player after some time you can make your branded player. to make enable license 

==================================================

 

Conversion Videos to HLS

My recommendation:

OLD VIDEOS: convert Popular videos to HLS. or convert Videos which are being watch .

because converting all old videos is not good idea but if we don't convert popular or hits videos or users favorite videos, its also not good idea.

in the video market i think there is only 3 category:

Public, Premium, Private.

and hls is required only one group is .m3u8

 

Please create a poll for hls or create a topic for HLS suggestion.

 

my humble request is please consider subtitles. because i want to start a movie website.

all of these feature is possible with fluidplayer

[Tech Support]

11 hours ago, xvids said:

my humble request is please consider subtitles. because i want to start a movie website.

We added subtitles to the poll already, so please vote for them.

[phseven]

16 hours ago, xvids said:

Hi, 

Feedback For MPEG-DASH and HLS

 

My recommendation is please use: 

https://www.fluidplayer.com/#overview

https://github.com/fluid-player/fluid-player

This player have many feature which required for KVS.

you can test. and its easy to configure. thanks to their javascript work.

for temporary you can use this player after some time you can make your branded player. to make enable license 

==================================================

 

Conversion Videos to HLS

My recommendation:

OLD VIDEOS: convert Popular videos to HLS. or convert Videos which are being watch .

because converting all old videos is not good idea but if we don't convert popular or hits videos or users favorite videos, its also not good idea.

in the video market i think there is only 3 category:

Public, Premium, Private.

and hls is required only one group is .m3u8

 

Please create a poll for hls or create a topic for HLS suggestion.

 

my humble request is please consider subtitles. because i want to start a movie website.

all of these feature is possible with fluidplayer

Very nice looking player , KVS team should make it as option in the new release

[Alex]

Hi guys. HD videos are minimum standard now... What about 4K videos flag and 4K filtering finally?

[MRS]

can you consider adding an option for verified members or a daily upload limit per user? 

[Tech Support]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:02 PM, Alex said:

Hi guys. HD videos are minimum standard now... What about 4K videos flag and 4K filtering finally?

Yes, we probably do that similar to HD flag. Right now you can easily display 4K flag using format info in video list template (change to your 4k format postfix if you have it set up differently in Settings -> Video formats):

{{assign var="postfix_4k" value="_2160p.mp4"}}
{{if $item.formats[$postfix_4k].postfix}}<span class="is-hd">4K</span>{{/if}}

However filtering is not possible for now. We have this in our todo list, not a major feature.

 

13 hours ago, MRS said:

can you consider adding an option for verified members or a daily upload limit per user? 

Do you mean to cope spam uploads? Did you try looking into Settings -> Antispam settings? This should allow reducing spam uploads. Also KVS has support for verified members in their profile editor:

Trusted members can upload, comment and etc. without any spam checks.

[Jack]

It would be nice if individual users could create and manage their own channel and playlists.